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Can Guru's Awaken Individuals?

Yes, No and Maybe
A Beezone enquiry


"The Spiritual Master's attention to his devotee naturally transforms the devotee... but the devotee's attention must also rest in the Spiritual Master."

On reading the above excerpt from The Way That I Teach is seems like the answer is yes, but the full question of whether or not a Guru can enlighten individuals/devotees is more complicated and subtle than it appears. The question can be answered in both the affirmative and the negative. But in both cases the subtle aspects of the question still remain.

It is said in the traditions that a Guru or Teacher is necessary because "Enlightenment is virtually impossible without the guidance and Grace of a God-Realized Teacher".1 It s also said, "that which is to be Realized is in the Divine Self Position. And It is to be Realized not by appealing to something outside yourself".2

The answers then can fit both common types of misunderstandings. One group of people will say 'yes' and then follow any teacher or guru in a child like manner. And the other more independent type of individual will say 'no' and try to enlighten themselves, or better yet, claim they are already enlightened!

Can we address this question without the traps of childish beliefs or adolescent arrogance? Is there a mature approach that is not compromised by self-emptying nor self-assertion?

"The Gurus" presiding presence, the most powerful force, can do wonders...your prayers are not answered by him but absorbed by his presence.
'Talks' is from S.S. Cohen from his book Reflections on Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi.

Ramana Maharshi

A disciple and devotee of the Great 20th Century Indian Sage, Ramana Maharshi, Sidney Cohen asked this question to his Guru. He asked, "can the Guru make his disciples realize the Self", Sri Ramana answers it in this way:

"...the Guru does not bring about Self-realization, but simply removes the obstacles to it. The Self is always realized. So long as you seek Self-realization the Guru is necessary. Guru is the Self. Take the Guru to be the real Self and yourself the individual. The disappearance of this sense of duality is removal of ignorance. So long as duality persists in you the Guru is necessary. Because you identify yourself with the body (and mind), you imagine the Guru to be the body. You are not the body, nor is the Guru. You are the Self and so is he. Th(is) knowledge is gained by what you call Self-realization".

In his comments on this Cohen says, "Bhagavan does not recognize the possibility of transmitting a power to a person to make him realize the Self. In fact no such power is at all necessary. What is necessary for the cognition of the Real is not an addition but a subtraction - the removal of the sense of duality with covers the One consciousness."

"I found over time, that the Way is a process of self-understanding - a process continually Served by the penetrating Insight and Compassion...'of the Guru'. I discovered that the practice...was a constance revelation of my own activity, not just one "final" moment of observation..."
The Perfect Alternative - Kanya Samatva Suprithi

It is clear that the Guru can awaken an individual who puts his or her attention on the Guru. Is this then a permanant change? is the devotee now awakened? Of course the answer is NO, the devotee is not awakened, permanently. As Cohen says, "All that the Guru can do is to help (the disciple) correct (his) false identification (with mind, body and self)."

Destiny - Karma

The Guru activates and initiates the student/individual/devotee. The Guru can't 'remove' karma's of lifetimes. The Guru can not permanently change the destiny of the individual, and magically change ones life into a divinely enlightened condition.

Devotee: You said that the karmas of those who have been with You before, who had been with Vivekananda, were more purified than the karmas of other people. You have also said that people who are around You in this Lifetime are purified of their karmas.

Adi Da: Purified of some, yes.

Devotee: If Your devotees are born after this Lifetime, would their karmas be more purified in their next lifetime as well?

Devotee: Not necessarily. It depends on the individual, on what kind of practice you do in My Company. If you do real practice, at least to some significant degree, well, then, yes, there is some diminution of karmic energies.

In an early talk4 Adi Da (then Bubba Free John) says:"If your approach to me is wonderful and full of love and sacrifice, as it should be, then all the karma that must be seen, that must become your responsibility, can be shown to you easily. I am willing to it to be shown to you in a dream or in just a brief moment, some little circumstance that come and goes. I am perfectly willing for you to understand that dimension that you must understand in yourself on just such an occasion. I am willing for these karmas to pass in easy ways, in dreams and simple circumstances. But if you approach is not whole, not direct, not one of service, consciously lived all the time, to the degree that you do not live such sadhana in my Company, you must suffer your karmas as they stand. They will still be awakened in you by the force of this Company that you keep with me, but they will be awakened in gross ways, as they tend to appear outwardly in your life, outwardly in the waking state. Then the process has to be very dramatic and heavy."

 

"....it is not me putting my attention on you, it's you putting your attention on me".

In a little phamplet put out by Kanya Samatva Suprithi called "Your Suffering Is Your Own Activity", Kanya Samatva describes her one aspect of the process of understanding and resource to the Divine One, in the form of Adi Da Samraj:

"In this moment I heard the Teaching for the first time. I understood the difference between one who really practices the Way of the Heart and one who entertains the concepts and ideas of Spiritual practice. I also saw that the only real alternative to my suffering stood before me - in the Form of Sri Da Kalki. In the Way of the Heart, I only had to turn to Him and call upon His Grace, apply His Teaching, and relinquish my self-made efforts.

Here we have a testimony to the 'process' of Spiritual Awakening in the context of the Guru and Disciple relationship. This process is a progressive one, over time (could be years or lifetimes) but still a process.

Kanya Samatva Suprithi goes on to describe the second aspect of this process, which is Grace, or Divine Help. This Divine Help is necessary since "Understanding" or True Understanding can not occur on our own 'creature power'. Divine Help is absolutely necessary.

 

Chogyam Trunpga - The Role of a Teacher

"You see, the idea of the term surrender is that once you surrender - that's the whole thing! You don't surrender because of something. Surrendering to the guru is quite different from an insurance policy. In the case of an insurance policy, you write down a list of all sorts of dangers, up to the point of the will of God or "acts of God.""
The Bardo of Birth

"In the vajrayana, it is absolutely necessary to have a teacher and to trust in the teacher. The teacher or vajra master is the only embodiment of the transmission of energy".

In the Collected Works of Chogyam Trungpa, Vol 4 (Shambhala Press 2004) is the first of three volumes that presents Trantric Buddhism, a subject Trungpa was reluctant to talk about in his early teaching years. He was reluctant because of the immaturity and materially based mind of the young American mind set.

In Buddhism the role of the Guru is paramount, absolutely essential for one on the path of the Buddha. In fact the Guru is the principle by which the tradtion is kept alive, the lineage. Without the Guru there is no living tradtion.

In the beginning stages the Guru is not called a Guru but a Spiritual Friend. Someone who works with the student in a manner of 'meeting of minds'. He describes it as the mind of the teacher expanded to include the mind of the student and vise-versa. And as the student advances the role and function of the Guru become more and more important in the development of the student and here is where the Spiritual Friend becomes Vajra Master.

"Relating with the vajra master is extremely powerful and somewhat dangerous".

"The vajra master could be quite heavy-handed; however; (s)he does not just play tricks on us whenever he finds a weak point".

".... the vajra master is a human being, someone who has a karmic debt to pay as a result of the intensity of his compassion. The dharma cannot be transmitted from the sun or the moon or the stars. The dharma can only be transmitted properly from human to human. So there is a need for a (Guru) vajra master who has tremendous power - power over us, power over the cosmos, and power over himself - and who has been warned that if he misdirects his energy he will be cut down and reduced into a little piece of charcol (burned up).

It is extremely important to have a living vajra master, someone who personally experiences our pain and our pleasure. We have to have a sense of fear and respect that we are connecting and communicating directly with tantra".

Practice

(Without a teacher or a practice)...without having some sense of understanding the meaning of practice, there is no real communication that takes place in your understanding of buddhadharma. And it is equally important to have a great deal of devotion to your teacher, who actually embodies the symbolism or the concept of practice at the same time. Through practice, the guru has already achieved a higher degree of enlightenment. Moreover, the guru is the only person who can actually push you and who could become a heavy-handed friend, who can actually make you, sit a lot and go beyond your slothfulness and laziness.

If you want to boycott and all kinds of things like that, only the guru can push you to make you sit a lot and practice a lot. A cosmic guru might send theoretical blessings and encouragements through your particular antenna, and tell you all kinds of stories and messages; but, according to the practicing lineage, such things are regarded as very fishy.

We can always reinterpret our own interpretations. To begin with, our own interpretation received from the antenna is not so substantial, but on top of that we can actually reinterpret it according to our liking. So it is necessary to have an earthly person, born and raised on this planet earth to begin with, who regards himself or herself as a human being who we like to share, the love and hate sweet and sour, hot and cold whatever you have of this particular world.

This person can communicate to you man to man, so to speak, and as a mirror reflection in some sense. He also provides some sense of real, genuine communication, independent of politicking or over-indulging in charitable kindness, and free from obsession with masochiistic trips - somebody who is somewhat sensible and reasonable, but at same time unyielding, who we "wise" in the traditional sense; somebody who cannot be persuaded by your side of your trip, and somebody who can actually be clear about whole thing; somebody who buys your story with a pinch of salt; but at the same time is kind and friendly to a certain extent. Such a person is the teacher, who then teaches you practice a lot, sit a lot.
The Message of the Practice Lineage - Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche

 

Function of the Spiritual Master

In The Whole Body of Enlightenment, Adi Da (Da Free John) writes "The human Spiritual Master is an agent to the advantage of those in like form". If a disciple enters into the company (not just the physical presence, but the spiritual presence of the Spiritual Master), then the 'literal physics' of ones existence begins to change.

Here is the key to understanding this complicated and paradoxical question. We begin to see and hear, that this is not a 'one time', 'do it and get it over with deal'. It is a process that has transformative powers far beyond any possible logical or scientific explanation, yet absolutely true.

This fundamental understanding must ultimately rest in Ignorance. Because the summation of our existence is Mystery, absolute, unqualified confrontation with what we cannot know. Any movement to 'know' is a contraction of mind on feeling, a feeling of fear and the action of 'grasping'. Enlighenment is, in the end, an private and isolated matter.

"He makes no assumptions on a lower level. So when he enters into relationship with you, (the) perfection tends also to be generated in your case, because his assumption of your true nature manifests as power to transform."

"One who lives as the function of Guru transcends, reduces, transforms, assumes, consumes and otherwise masters the various karmas or states, subtle and gross, of his disciples in his own body. And that "body" is the whole mechanism or range of functions, usually called "bodies" in the esoteric literature. Wherever a form arises in or as the disciple, it is communicated and transformed in or as the Guru in the corresponding and appropriate function. Therefore, the relationship between Guru and disciple is the spiritual process".

"The Divine is just as fitted to this world as the human Guru....Present and functional. The Guru is a bit of business, a movement, serviceable. He can't be denied. He presses the Divine Siddhi in upon the world. The Divine itself from the point of view of humanity is relatively passive, except thru agency, in the case of the human Guru. He is just like another guy except he has been wiped out ...he's not some great human being....He pressed himself upon the world, upon individuals...He upsets people, not on purpose but because is is 'exposing' the game of Narcissus. He is Light. He/She is light water falling in, falling down upon this human drama called life."

It is only by 'hearing', 'seeing' and practicing can the Spiritual Master be of help (enter into the sphere of his transmission) to the devotee. Only by continuing to practice that the transmission can be effective. Only by submission to the process can the Spiritual Master be of True Help to the devotee.

You don't need a Spiritual Master beyond a certain point. If you only want to read books or aquire a philosophy. But to practice and enter into a spiritual practice there is no other souce of help. In the case of rare individuals that Living Agency may be brought concretely, but not through the apparent agency of another human being. But such individuals are rare, but they still enter into the sphere of Help. The Help is simply given outside the agency of a grossly manifest human being. it may be given through the help of a deceased Adept, or some disincarnate source or it may be given directly from the Eternal Source Itself. But these cases are very rare. 5

The point is the ego or self contraction cannot by its own efforts release itself from its own bond.

So the answer the the question is, Yes, No and Yes and No!

Yes
"My Blessing Is The Giving Of Hridaya-Shakti, The Inherent "Brightness" Of The Heart Itself. And those who Truly and Fully Receive My Blessing Are Thereby Directly Awakened To Stable Identification With The Native Witness-Position Of Consciousness and To The Inherently Perfect Practice Of The Way Of The Heart".
Chapter 12 - The Dawn Horse Testament

Shakti
"Power of Grace that enables his Realization to be of use to devotees."

No
"It is not possible for Me (or for anyone at all) to actively—by the application of any conditional means at all—“cause” people to Realize The Truth of Reality Itself."
Perfect Dis-Illusionment - The Aletheon - Part Eight

"I can give people energy and insight into their struggle, but the struggle is theirs. It has never been given to me to replace anyones responsibility for that struggle"
Vision Mound Magazine, 1980

"I am not trying to communicate to you....should just tie yourself to me or put some stickum on my big toe and hang on while I go to the Ultimate Domain, dragging you behind me! I do not communicate to you any sense that the Great Reality is in any way separate from you at this present moment. I call you to a consideration wherein you may Realize God in this moment, and on that basis I voluntarily make myself available to you."
The Dreaded Gom Boo

Yes and No

The Inner Guru, which is the very Heart and the Form of Reality, Amrita Nadi, is the same as the human Guru. The human Guru is that alive and functioning relative to you. That's why the life of sadhana relative to the Siddha Guru is the highest form of spiritual activity, because all of the virtues of the Truth are already present. They are already present in the activity that is understanding because it is the understanding of the heart, and of real consciousness, but they are also present in the condition of sadhana itself, in the condition of Satsang, in the very condition with which you begin your sadhana, you exist in relationship to this fullness in the Form of the Guru. So the perfect devotee of the Guru experiences the perfect communication of the quality of the Guru.

The Life of Understanding - Week 9

 

"The Realization of The Truth of Reality Itself cannot be “caused”—but “It” can (and, indeed, must) Be Given."

Perfect Dis-Illusionment - The Aletheon - Part Eight

The Guru assumes responsibilities and initiates changes only to the degree that the individual assumes a responsible relationship to him in that play. Then it is a transforming, liberating process. But independent of that process, it is not liberating, in such a case, it ultimately leads to more and more levels of irresponsibility ...
Nov 2, 1975 (unpublished) Shifting

It is necessary for the individual who enters into such Communion to understand how that great relationship works. As the individual develops this practice in my Company and contacts me through all of the opportunities of this Satsang, the contents of this Narcissistic ego or karmic personality come into consciousness. As these contents arise, the individual is to practice the exercises of conductivity and the Conscious Process in daily life and meditation. That is done in direct Communion with the Divine Power, transmitted in and through and as the Adept. As these contents arise in the moment of this Company, they are purified. They are brought up by that Influence, they are lifted off, they are changed, either instantly, or through a process of trial. They are reduced, broken up, absorbed, or in one or another way eliminated by the Work of the Adept. This is literally so; it is not merely figuratively so.
The Conscious Process

As you develop your practice in My Company and contact Me ...your karmic personality, come into awareness...as these contents arise, practice the exercises of "conductivity" and the "conscious process" in daily life and meditation, but always in direct Communion with the Divine Power and Being Transmitted in and through and As Me, your True Heart-Master. As these contents arise in My Company, they are purified by My Spiritual Heart-Transmission. They are stimulated by My Transmission and they are lifted off, or changed either instantly, or through a process of trial or a sequence of changes. The contents of the ego, or the body-mind, or self-contraction, are reduced, broken up, and in one or another way eliminated by My Divine Work. This is literally, and not merely figuratively, so. When I spend time with you, or sit with you to Grant you My Darshan, I Magnify My Spiritual Heart-Transmission to you, and It Combines with the various contents of your conditional being. My Transmission is Self-Radiant Energy and Self-Existing Consciousness. In Satsang with Me, this is what you confront in your life and meditation. This is the character of My Divine Siddhi. And It spontaneously Works to stimulate the contents of your conditional self, in life, in meditation, and in moments of repose. That Siddhi also breaks them up and eliminates them in a process that is not possible by any other means. Ultimately these contents are eliminated by My Transmission Work, and they are returned to the Primal Energy Condition, or the Ultimate Condition of Divine Being.
Incarnation of Love - Chapter 12

 


1. Enlighenment and the Transformation of Man. Selections from talks and essarys on the spiritual process and God Realization. Editors notes p. 152.

2. Adi Da Samraj, The Parential Deity and the One to be Realized, Feb 7, 1983

3. Sidney Cohen's book, Reflections on Talks with Sri Ramana Maharshi (1959, p.96)

4. The Dawn Horse (Vol 1 Number 2, Dec 1975), entitled "Lay It At My Feet"

5. What Is the Conscious Process, Da Free John, unpublished talk, Oct 28, 1982.


also see:

The Conscious Process is the Epitome of This Way - Adi Da - 1982


More:

"Any one and every one who doubts and quibbles about the necessity of a true Adept-Guru is, simply, not yet ready, willing, and able to enter the esoteric Ordeal of the advanced and the ultimate stages of life. And no mere verbal argument is sufficient to convince such doubters of the necessity of a true Adept-Guru." - The Great Esoteric Tradition of Devotion to the Adept-Realizer


"The process of Satsang is the orginal form of the Guru-Disciple relationship. As the intuitive stages develop in meditation Satsang becomes unnecessary. The Understanding which is then activiated and alive as the Heart becomes the principle of Satsang. The religious and social order of the Guru and Disciple change form an intimate bodily association to a spiritual one. The association with the Guru or Man of Understanding is transcendentally available to all. He is the Real. He is already with them."
adapted and edited from unpublished notes 1971 - Adi Da Samraj (Franklin Jones)


When I make the way of the heart clear, my listening devotees begin to understand. When they hear me, they truly understand themselves. Therefore, the inclination toward egoic "self-possession" becomes weak in my hearing devotees, and they, by self-transcendence, grow to feel me at the heart and to acknowledge me from the heart. Then I become as if transparent to them, and they begin to see the divine person in and as my company. In that seeing, they are moved beyond themselves, distracted by a "bright" heart-vision. In their forms, mankind turns about and begins to submit to me as the inherent condition or transcendental, and inherently spiritual, and necessarily divine self of all. And their submission calls upon the infinite eternal resource of who i am. In my openly ecstatic and happy response to these, my seeing devotees, the power and work and domain of who I am comes to meet them, and their realization of my agency becomes full. In this manner, I demonstrate to all my listening devotees, and to all my hearing devotees, and to all my seeing devotees that I am the heart, who is the way, the root, the doer, the source, the truth, and the self-domain of the process of spiritual, transcendental, and divine awakening.
Adi Da Samraj - Chapter 2 - The Dawn Horse Testament


Anyone who comes into contact with the Adept will in one way or another or to one degree or another experience an awakening. Of course, they may defend themselves against it. They may have it momentarily and then contract from it, but that awakening is the significance of the true Adept. The function of the Adept is not to call people back to Realize God but to grant people the Realization of God instantly. Having established you in such Realization, the Adept calls you to practice the Way of that Realization, the Way of constantly abiding in that Realization. Such abiding requires the discipline of self-transcending submission to Divine Communion.
What I Look For


In the popular egalitarian "culture" of the first three stages of life, the Guru and the developmental culture of the Spiritual Way are taboo, because every individual limited by the motives of the first three stages of life is at war with personal vulnerability and need. However, the real Spiritual process does not even begin until the egoic point of view of the first three stages of life is understood and the ego-surrendering and ego-transcending Motive of the fourth stage of life begins to move and change the body-mind.

Spiritually Realized Adepts are the principal Sources, Resources, and Means of the esoteric Way


QUESTION: Is Self-Realization possible without the help of a Guru?

ANSWER: He alone can realize the Self without a Guru's help in whose mind queries like, "Who am I?, What is the world?, Where was I before, and where shall I go? and Where is Peace?" arise from his very birth and the thought of the futility and transitoriness of the world clearly manifests and awakens keen dispassion and leads him to self-enquiry. Such men are very rare.
The Life and Teaching of Sri Brahmajna Ma - see Laughing Man Magazine Article


The first obstacle, and the primary obstacle, to spiritual life is the relationship to the Guru. It is also the fundamental condition, content and source of spiritual or real life.........spiritual life is a relationship, a living demand. It creates an obstacle from the very beginning. And that obstacle provokes the crisis and fundamental sacrifice that real life requires.
Method of The Siddhas - Chapter 8


"I cannot replace your responsibilities, and neither can you replace My Work. You think I am here to handle your responsibilities and that you are here to do My Work!"
Religious Realism


"The devotee is constantly given the intuition of the Absolute. But because he, or she, adheres to the ego and to apparent divisions of the body-being, he/she does not recognize fully the significance of his intuition of God. It is too ordinary an experience. He may feel a little relieved, a little blissful, but still he is unable to be completely given over to the translating Force of the revelation of the Spiritual Master. Therefore, his practice is a matter of growth in the Divine Company of the Spiritual Master. The initiation into Communion with God is given constantly, but it is not fully realized by the devotee. He is initiated piece by piece."
THE WAY THAT I TEACH - Talks on the Intuition of Eternal Life - Chapter 14 - The Secret: of Divine Translation


"ultimately the character of my work with people is such that these contents are eliminated. They are absorbed, broken up, eliminated, returned to the primary energy condition, and to the Ultimate Condition of Transcendental Being. And so the spiritual life of devotees in this Way is of this kind. It is lived out in this Company, in the context of this Siddhi, and in this relationship. It is necessary for devotees to hear, to understand, to practice the disciplines of conductivity and the conscious process. That is their part of this play. And my part is to be present with them, to magnify this influence in their company. And that influence inevitably does the work as I've described it."


The guru assumes your enlightenment. He doesn't mechanically enlighten you, Or give you something to do to enlighten yourself. He absorbs you.
Have I Said It?


"In the case of rare individuals ...Agency may be given outside the agency of a grossly manifesed human being, but such individuals are rare."
The Conscious Process - The Epitome of This Way


DEVOTEE: Does proximity to you, closeness to your body, have any relation to the intensity or the effects of Satsang?

FRANKLIN: What is your experience?

DEVOTEE: It doesnt seem to have that much to do with the body. It seems more to be how much I am in felt contact with you and how open I am to you.

FRANKLIN: It all depends on the quality of your relationship. Everything is its medium, because everything is it. The body seems to be a very potent source for some, whereas for others the process seems to take place mainly or only in very subtle ways. Neither one is superior to the other. A person must discover the quality of Satsang for himself.

The Method of the Siddhas, CHAPTER 10, The Path of the Great Form


 


"The perfect among the sages is identical with Me. There is absolutely no difference between us"
Tripura Rahasya, Chap XX, 128-133

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